法拉奇是意大利《晚邮报》的记者，也是世界各国重要报纸的自由撰稿者。她曾采访过世界上许多政要人物，包括基辛格、西哈努克、梅厄夫人、阿拉法特等，并写了一本书。法拉奇坦言，她对采访对象的评论、印象都会毫不留情地写在前言中。Oriana Fallaci was a journalist with Italian newspaper Corriere Della Sera, and a freelance writer for major newspapers of many countries. Her book Interview with History records her many interviews with prominent figures worldwide, including Henry Kissinger, Norodom Sihanouk, former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, Jordanian King Hussein bin Talal, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization Yasser Arafat, and Iran’s religious leader Ruhollah Khomeini. Fallaci said that she wrote in the book her impression and comments about her interviewees in the most outspoken language.中国开始实行改革开放政策后，法拉奇非常关注中国发生的事，特别对改革开放的总设计师邓小平产生强烈的兴趣。她搜集了邓小平的资料，看外国人写的邓小平传记，对邓小平的生平有所了解。
China’s reform and opening-up drew Fallaci’s attention to the country, in particular to Deng Xiaoping, the “chief architect” of reform and opening-up. She learned about Deng’s life from the materials she collected and Deng’s biographies by foreign writers.她说要让世界得到关于中国的第一手信息。现在全世界都对中国感兴趣，许多人揣测中国要走当年赫鲁晓夫的路了，中国正处于大变革时期，而开始这一变革的是邓小平。世界不大知道邓小平，究竟邓小平要干什么？她觉得要了解中国的走向，邓小平是关键人物。
Fallaci wanted to share with the world firsthand information about China. At the time, there was great interest about China, and many people speculated that China would follow Khrushchev’s step. China was in a period of great transformation which was started by Deng Xiaoping. Yet, the world barely knew about Deng or what he wanted to achieve. Fallaci believed that Deng was the key to understanding where China was heading.1980年8月21日，邓小平在人民大会堂118厅会见了法拉奇。这次采访的安排很特殊，法拉奇提出她要独家报道，不让任何其他新闻机构的人参加，包括中国记者。所以，这次会见时，中国摄影记者只拍了几分钟就退场了。当时在场的只有邓小平、外交部新闻司司长钱其琛、法拉奇和翻译施燕华，还有一个记录员，共5个人。
On August 21, 1980, Deng Xiaoping met with Fallaci in Room 118 of the Great Hall of the People. The interview took place in an unusual arrangement. Fallaci wanted it to be an exclusive one without the presence of any other media personnel, not even Chinese reporters. So the Chinese photojournalists only stayed for a few minutes to take pictures, and then there were only five people left in the room: Deng Xiaoping, Qian Qichen (then Director-General of the Foreign Ministry’s Information Department), Oriana Fallaci, Shi Yanhua (the interpreter), and a recording secretary.法拉奇毕竟是一位有经验的老记者，一坐下来，就把录音机放在茶几上。其实，第一次坐下来面对这位世纪伟人时，她对采访能否成功，心里也没底。似乎为了给邓小平一个好印象，她说：“明天是您的生日，我要祝贺您，祝您生日快乐！”邓小平幽默地说：“明天是我的生日？我从来不关心什么时候是我的生日”。法拉奇说：“我是从您的传记中知道的”。邓小平说：“就算是吧，也别祝贺我。我已经76岁了，到了衰退的年龄啦！”法拉奇说：“我父亲也是76岁，我要这么对他说，他肯定会打我两巴掌的”。邓小平说：“是呀，当然不能对你父亲这么说”。
As a veteran journalist, Fallaci put her recorder on the tea table right after she took her seat. Yet deep down, face to face for the first time with this great man of the century, she was not sure if the interview would work out. Trying to make a good impression with Deng, she started by a birthday congratulation, “Tomorrow is your birthday. Happy birthday to you!” Deng replied with a sense of humor, “Is it my birthday tomorrow? I never cared when my birthday is.” Fallaci added, “I learned it from your biography.” “Even if it is, there’s nothing to congratulate about. I’m 76, an age already on the wane,” said Deng. “My father is also 76,” said Fallaci, “And if I tell him that this age means decline, I think he would give me a good slap in the face.” Deng then commented: “Of course you wouldn’t say this to your father.”采访就在这样轻松的气氛中开始了，但并不是整个过程都是轻松的。寒喧结束，一场紧张的交锋开始了。The interview started with a light-hearted tone, which though didn’t last throughout the event. After the small talk, a more serious conversation began.当时天安门广场上还挂着马克思、恩格斯、列宁、斯大林的像。法拉奇对挂斯大林的像很不理解，她认为赫鲁晓夫反斯大林，是英雄，在这个问题上她与邓小平争论起来。最后邓小平抓住她问题的实质，一针见血地回答：“我要告诉你，我们决不会像赫鲁晓夫对待斯大林那样对待毛主席！”邓小平指了指法拉奇的笔说，请你一定要把这句话记下来。
Referring to the portraits of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin she saw on Tiananmen Square, Fallaci argued that Stalin should not be honored and Khrushchev was a hero because he denounced Stalin. She disputed with Deng on that point. After a long argument, Deng cut to the chase of her question, “I must tell you that we will never do to Chairman Mao Zedong what Khrushchev did to Stalin!” He pointed to Fallaci’s pen and asked her to note down this particular sentence.法拉奇对邓小平的话不能理解，她坦率地说：“这是您刚才说的许多话中，第一个我不能理解的问题。但我有一句话，希望您听了不要生气，这不是我说的，西方有人说您是中国的赫鲁晓夫！您对此有何看法？”
Fallaci could not understand Deng’s words. She was straightforward, “That was the first thing I couldn’t understand since we started to talk. And I hope you will not feel offended if I tell you that some in the West, not me, call you the Khrushchev of China. What’s your comment?”这个有点鲁莽的问题瞬间使会见厅的空气凝重起来。施燕华心里有点儿嘀咕，她怎么问这么不礼貌的问题？翻译完这个问题，施燕华不安地看着邓小平的表情。邓小平听了不但没有表示丝毫的怒意，相反却报以爽朗的大笑，他以平静的语气，从容地回答说：“哦，在西方他们称我什么都可以，但是我对赫鲁晓夫是了解的，我个人同他打了十年交道，我是了解这个人的，把我比作赫鲁晓夫是愚蠢的”。
The question was rather blunt; the air in the room got tense. Why would she ask such a rude question? Shi Yanhua, Deng’s interpreter, thought to herself. After Shi translated the question, she looked at Deng with a little unease. Deng was not ruffled in the least. Instead, he gave a hearty laughter and said with perfect composure: “Listen, they can call me anything they like in the West, but I know Khrushchev well, I have dealt with him for 10 years, and it would be absurd to compare me to Khrushchev.”邓小平概括了赫鲁晓夫对中国做的种种坏事：中断援助项目，干涉中国内政，企图控制中国，要求在中国设军事基地等。他知道这些例子不一定能说服法拉奇，继续争论毫无意义，于是宽容地说：“看样子，我们在这个问题上达不成协议了。这样吧，你保留你的观点，我保留我的。我们不谈赫鲁晓夫了”。
Deng recounted the many things that Khrushchev did to China: suspending aid programs, meddling in China’s internal affairs, attempting to control China, asking to set up military bases in China, and so on. Knowing that he might not be able to convince Fallaci with these examples and that continuing the argument would lead nowhere, Deng chose an accommodative approach, “It seems that we could not agree with each other on this matter. What about you keeping your opinion and I keeping mine, and let’s put Khrushchev aside?”法拉奇虽然不再提赫鲁晓夫，但仍然对改革开放会把中国引向何处，疑惑不解。她问邓小平：“您是否认为资本主义不都是坏的？”她还觉得邓小平主张保留农村的自留地与共产主义理论有矛盾。这些问题不仅国外关心，国内也有不少人觉得难以解释。
Dropping the topic of Khrushchev, Fallaci continued to pursue her question as to where reform and opening-up would lead China. She asked Deng: “Does it mean that not all in capitalism is so bad?” She also thought Deng’s endorsement of private plots in rural areas contradicted the theory of Communism. These questions not only drew international attention but also were found hard to explain by many within the country.邓小平明确地回答了法拉奇的问题：“首先要弄清什么是资本主义。资本主义要比封建主义优越，有些东西并不能说是资本主义的”。他列举了先进的技术、先进的生产管理等，任何社会、任何国家都应学习，是没有阶级性的。他指出，社会主义是共产主义的第一阶段，是一个很长的历史阶段，在这个阶段，必须把国家、集体和个人利益结合起来，才能调动积极性，发展社会主义。
Deng gave a clear-cut answer: “It depends on how you define capitalism. Any capitalism is superior to feudalism. And we cannot say that everything developed in capitalist countries is of a capitalist nature.” He said: “For instance, technology, science — even advanced production management is also a sort of science —will be useful in any society or country. And these things as such have no class character.” He pointed out: “Socialism is the first stage of communism and it covers a very long historical period in which we must combine the interests of the state, the collective and the individual, for only thus can we arouse people’s enthusiasm for labor and develop socialist production.”
邓小平接受法拉奇采访
Deng Xiaoping gives an interview to Oriana Fallaci.
8月23日上午，邓小平又见了法拉奇一次。两次加起来约有4个多小时，邓小平重点对国际形势作了深刻的分析。第二次谈话结束时，邓小平高兴地站起来，与法拉奇握手告别。他幽默地说：“怎么样，我考试及格了吧？”法拉奇连忙说：“精彩极了！”
On the morning of August 23, Deng met with Fallaci again. The two sessions totaled more than four hours. This time, Deng made an in-depth analysis of the international landscape. Deng concluded the second session in high spirit; he stood up to shake hands with Fallaci and say goodbye. “Did I pass the test?” he joked. “With flying colors,” Fallaci replied.8月31日、9月1日，西方各大报纸连载了法拉奇采访邓小平的全文，引起强烈反响，人们对中国正在进行的改革开放有了进一步的认识。法拉奇接受美国电视台采访时说：“我所采访的世界领导人中，没有一个人能像邓这样坦率、深入地谈论历史问题。他超越了个人恩怨谈历史问题，是谈得很深的。”法拉奇认为，对邓小平的采访，是她事业中最成功的一次。同年9月，法拉奇给邓小平写了一封感谢信，在信尾她写道：“采访您是我的宿愿。我曾经担心语言障碍会妨碍这一愿望的实现，现在看来，这一担心是多余的。”On August 31 and September 1, major Western newspapers carried the transcript of Fallaci’s interview with Deng. The interview riveted international attention, as it opened a window on the ongoing reform and opening-up in China. On an American TV program, Fallaci commented that among the world leaders she had interviewed, none had talked about historical issues in such a candid and in-depth manner as Deng did. Deng shared his insights in great depth about historical issues without being affected by his personal misfortune. She regarded the interview with Deng as the most successful one in her career. In September the same year, she wrote a letter to thank Deng for his time, at the end of which she wrote: “I’ve been longing for an interview with you. I was concerned if the language barrier would prevent it from coming true. But now this concern has proved to be unnecessary.”来源：直新闻编辑：西法大新传版权归陕西省委外事工作委员会办公室所有，如需转载，请联系授权